tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post1345977154973795195..comments2024-03-07T20:15:45.996-08:00Comments on The Bitter Script Reader: Tuesday Talkback: The Prestige and ambiguityThe Bitter Script Readerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16575166527272639709noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-7469584719073290682013-08-22T08:10:19.980-07:002013-08-22T08:10:19.980-07:00Thanks, hadn't thought of that.
SPOILER ALERT...Thanks, hadn't thought of that.<br /><br />SPOILER ALERT, if you haven't seen the film, DON'T READ THIS:<br /><br />The bigger prestige and magic trick for me, was the infinitesimally small change in voice quality Christian Bale adopted for his two "characters". It's so unnoticeable. I only noticed about halfway through the film and immediately understood. But everyone I've asked never noticed. I'm an actor and I completely adore and respect that kind of attention to detail. Bale immediately rocketed to my top 10 list. Kudos.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06009145547713440091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-31668201241242569562013-08-14T01:48:36.337-07:002013-08-14T01:48:36.337-07:00Three words regarding another film: Han shot firs...Three words regarding another film: Han shot first.Waves of Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17441593487387142147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-66654571707018367302013-08-13T21:30:05.750-07:002013-08-13T21:30:05.750-07:00It's quite weird to me that either of those po...It's quite weird to me that either of those points of view changes how the movie is viewed, and is pretty much where I think people get Nolan's movies wrong by over-complicating things that are ultimately irrelevant.<br /><br />The simple point is it's what Jackman's character believes and we are told explicitly that he does not know. In fact speculating on it has driven him a bit mad. So he is committing suicide or murder every time he pushes the button and the fact he accepted that as the cost of revenge is where the power of the story is. RicGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15402490648983811985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-40893923151656737112013-08-13T18:13:44.624-07:002013-08-13T18:13:44.624-07:00Your interpretation is correct. You happy now?
Tee...Your interpretation is correct. You happy now?<br />Teenage logic puzzle dressed up in faux romanticism and decent visuals. Am I describing this film or Inception? <br />The film is saved by the Tesla sequence, which is actually quite special. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-4088196635327579972013-08-13T18:13:25.801-07:002013-08-13T18:13:25.801-07:00Hmm. I thought I was going to hear a far out theor...Hmm. I thought I was going to hear a far out theory from you. But, your theory is what I assumed was the case. People think something differently? It's the only way it makes sense. However, I do have a theory of my own. At the very end of the movie after Jackman dies and the camera pans out. We see a dead Jackman in the water. I've always taken that as a sign that there is still one more Jackman, alive somewhere. Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00651399948738085456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-42861568491935052402013-08-13T18:09:54.241-07:002013-08-13T18:09:54.241-07:00I always thought of it as a Schrödinger's cat ...I always thought of it as a Schrödinger's cat thought experiment. Yes, I agree, the magician on the stage is the one who dies every night and the one up in the stands is the clone, but when he has that line about "I took the stage every night wondering, would I be the man in the box or the man in the stands" (whatever, I can't remember the exact phrasing). <br /><br />I liked toying with the idea that perhaps there is a tie of consciousness between the clone and the original, in some form or other. This is unsupported by the script with the exception of that line. <br /><br />Anyway, for the moment that cloning device goes off, Jackman's character is both men. It's interesting to think about.ashley p. quachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02872653869210202834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-1409839921564654602013-08-13T17:25:50.319-07:002013-08-13T17:25:50.319-07:00It's been a while since I watched it fully, an...It's been a while since I watched it fully, and this was a great read, even if I was already on your side of the fence.<br /><br />However, from memory is his motivation as much about revenge on Bale as it was about grief?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15180520342079092313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-33039174976928268692013-08-13T14:32:14.262-07:002013-08-13T14:32:14.262-07:00Infuriating: Once it's explained that Angiers ...Infuriating: Once it's explained that Angiers kills himself and not his clone night after night, you have to let the alternate explanation go! This is like those lateral thinking puzzles: There is a MOST elegant answer. If you didn't get it, you don't get points for coming up with a "viable" alternative, because its not the most elegant.<br /><br />The example: Man goes into a bar and asks the bartender for a glass of water. Bartender pulls out a shotgun and points it at the man's face. The man thanks the bartender, and happily leaves without the water. Why?<br /><br />This has one answer. You can say the man was actually trying to rob the place, and the bartender knew it, but your "alternate theory" is wrong.<br /><br />The Prestige is soooooo awesome, that people owe it to themselves to "get it". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-89787280342696801852013-08-13T11:12:31.070-07:002013-08-13T11:12:31.070-07:00Great art makes you think, and is willing to lend ...Great art makes you think, and is willing to lend itself to alternate perspectives. Kudos to Christopher Nolan for having the balls to make a movie like "The Prestige." Can't wait to see what he does with "Interstellar," his next project, which from what I read on IMBD sounds VERY INTERESTING, very high concept. E.C. Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10748007729066148300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-17737383267502407232013-08-13T09:12:50.336-07:002013-08-13T09:12:50.336-07:00It's been awhile since I've seen the movie...It's been awhile since I've seen the movie. <br /><br />Instead of two "Hugh Jackmans", I thought he had a twin brother... and that nobody actually drowns or dies. <br /><br />It was just a body double trick.The Unknown Lyricisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02851649838865022855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-49538517667413439542013-08-13T09:03:22.089-07:002013-08-13T09:03:22.089-07:00Also -- let's not forget the big ON THE NOSE s...Also -- let's not forget the big ON THE NOSE scene that drives home the point that Angier is killing himself by drowning. Which is at the end when Caine's character tells him he lied about drowning. Early in the movie he says it's a peaceful way to die, in order to ease Angier's suffering about his wife.<br /><br />But in the end, when he realizes what Angier's been doing. He tells him how horrible a way it is to die. Thus making him realize he's continued to kill himself not in a peaceful way - but in a way that caused suffering and pain over and over again.Alfred P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16519734182907460803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-49145807914580831882013-08-13T08:39:27.279-07:002013-08-13T08:39:27.279-07:00It bothers me a bit that you kept referring to Hug...It bothers me a bit that you kept referring to Hugh Jackman doing this or that or the other thing. It was the <i>character</i> played by Jackman, Robert Angier, who performed these actions.<br /><br />A minor point, perhaps, but one worth attending to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-39811577919638403892013-08-13T07:02:14.333-07:002013-08-13T07:02:14.333-07:00Actually, both answers are correct.
This is a ven...Actually, both answers are correct.<br /><br />This is a venerable topic in philosophy of mind. Unless you're going to to all medieval and claim that there's some immaterial soul that can't be copied, then as long as you have causal continuity between neural systems, <i>both</i> versions are equally as "real". Like when a river flows around an island, there's no meaningful way of saying which branch is the "real" river.Staircaseghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02647353730607650698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-12209579486025012482013-08-13T03:03:48.844-07:002013-08-13T03:03:48.844-07:00Really enjoyed this post, I loved this film and co...Really enjoyed this post, I loved this film and co-incidentally, watched this film again a couple of nights ago and I noticed so much more that flagged up the ending/explanations. I think any ambiguity is lessened somewhat by a couple of things, the initial bird trick shown to the little girl in the opening by Michael Caine, where the bird is made to disappear and then reappear but you see that in fact the first bird is really dead and secondly the rabbit trick by the bit part magician - when the little boy cries because he thinks the rabbit is dead and then says "but where is his brother" when it reappears. Implication from early on that matches with the characters, one trick kills the original and replaces it with another exact replica and one trick is using a twin. It is also telling that early on they both admired the Chinese magician's dedication to his art in keeping up his act off stage and giving his whole life to it, but then both felt differently about the value of doing that. DeeTourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13793182974046962892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-60546214344787545582013-08-13T01:52:52.191-07:002013-08-13T01:52:52.191-07:00I think the 'Matrix' sequels throw up all ...I think the 'Matrix' sequels throw up all manner of ambiguous things - I don't believe it's ever fully explained how Neo is able to stop the Sentinels in the real world at the close of Matrix Reloaded, for example, and at the time I became convinced the 'real world' was merely another level of the Matrix (I was the only person to come up with that amongst my friends too).<br /><br />What usually leads to 'alternate' interpretations are films with slightly ambiguous endings, where the fates of one or more characters/situations aren't completely answered in the running time, so I usually find myself coming away with positive interpretations as that's how I prefer my stories to end, as opposed to thinking things were actually 'bad' after all.<br /><br />'Inception' is an obvious example here - I thought Cobb made it home to his real family - but another is 'Pan's Labyrinth', where the ending is on two levels. In one, the heroine dies, in the other she becomes the princess of a fantasy realm far removed from the horrors of the real world. Pretty much everybody adores that movie, but I couldn't get past the heroine dying and as such couldn't buy into the interpretation that she was 'free' now and able to live on in the other realm.<br /><br />And I came away from 'Sucker Punch' thinking it was the worst film I (or indeed anyone) had ever seen in my entire life. A few people afterwards talked about it as if it was a fun, feminist-friendly fantasy action movie. So apparently I was on the heavy stuff that night before going to see it...Monster Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09060472590396598058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-81437651082256755292013-08-13T01:36:13.112-07:002013-08-13T01:36:13.112-07:00I didn't think there was any other interpretat...I didn't think there was any other interpretation, and cannot see how there is. Clearly, Jackman dies every night in the same way his wife did, only to be resurrected. Other Nolan films, yes, are open to interpretation. The spinning top, I doubt even HE knows the full truth, and as for Dark Knight Rises, I thought Wayne really was at that place (it has more resonance that way than an old man hallucinating, even if it doesn't make much sense in terms of realism), but ultimately it's up to the audience what they want to believe (or if Bale accepts the rumoured $50million to team up with Cavill). <br /><br />The Prestige has a clear explanation. Jackman dies and a clone is created to replace him. <br /><br />Oh, and the twin "twist" is also resonant in this regard, but not as much as the wife drowning. Antony Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13447937811664940451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-72286965218503533342013-08-13T00:53:17.925-07:002013-08-13T00:53:17.925-07:00Well spotted, John Gary! I'd never made that c...Well spotted, John Gary! I'd never made that connection before either...<br /><br />This is probably more about being dumb than alternative interpretations, but: the first time I saw The Dark Knight Rises, I came out convinced the entire hole-in-the-ground-prison sequence was an elaborate fantasy Bruce Wayne was dreaming as he lay horribly injured. (To my mind, it made more sense, and said a lot about his perception of Bane, that he'd dream up a backstory like that for his enemy...)<br /><br />debbiemoonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793936598749605992noreply@blogger.com