tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post4405452966152449091..comments2024-03-07T20:15:45.996-08:00Comments on The Bitter Script Reader: How STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS gives us the Kirk we deserveThe Bitter Script Readerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16575166527272639709noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-18597005465008575602013-05-31T09:17:38.022-07:002013-05-31T09:17:38.022-07:00Read http://invisibleinkblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/...Read http://invisibleinkblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/movie-i-like-star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan.html?spref=tw for a very nice explanation as to why moviegoers liked The Wrath of Khan.Daniel Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12214334186482741716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-53465604401870406932013-05-24T21:03:24.529-07:002013-05-24T21:03:24.529-07:00Not a Trekkie. TWOK is my favorite film of the ser...Not a Trekkie. TWOK is my favorite film of the series. Loved STID. Found this a thoughtful and balanced defense of the latter. Well done, sir.christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04436909425781566169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-69777305186935540862013-05-21T01:26:22.865-07:002013-05-21T01:26:22.865-07:00That's a fair point actually, well put :)That's a fair point actually, well put :)Monster Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09060472590396598058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-18595123245969403632013-05-21T00:49:23.071-07:002013-05-21T00:49:23.071-07:00And now you've just made me sad that there was...And now you've just made me sad that there was no Rachel Nichols. Oh well, there's hope for the third film, I guess.<br /><br />Yeah, it's surprisingly easy to remove Carol from the film as released. I was kind of expecting that one subplot would have shown Kirk growing from being the cocky playboy to being capable of a more mature relationship with her. But then, I guess that would have been too much to fit into the film with everything else going on.<br /><br />(I would not be surprised if at one point in development, that was the intent and when it didn't come together, the necessity of Carol's role never got revisited.)<br /><br />Still, I would have liked to have seen hints of an eventual Jim/Carol coupling. Heck, even BONES flirted with her more than Kirk did.The Bitter Script Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16575166527272639709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-13295281015889587172013-05-21T00:39:42.595-07:002013-05-21T00:39:42.595-07:00Well, if they're sticking with the pretense th...Well, if they're sticking with the pretense that this is merely an alternate timeline that branched off at the point of Kirk's birth, they're kinda stuck with the fact that Khan is male. He hails from at least 200 years before the divergence in the timeline. (In other words Cumberbatch-Khan and Montalban-Khan are essentially the same people until near the end of his deep-freeze.<br /><br />Admiral Marcus COULD have been a woman, but the cynic in me suspects that the creators would then be attacked for the fact that the most prominent female character in the script is a deranged bad guy. (Because let's face it - Marcus's plot is pretty deranged.)<br /><br />I admit I never felt the sympathy for Khan that others have professed to. He's a terrorist and a megalomaniac. Even putting aside the bombing and the attack on Starfleet headquarters, while hiding out on the Klingon homeworld he straight-up murders a whole squad of Klingons. (The Starfleet team merely has their phasers set to stun.) There's also the fact that even when he has the Enterprise outgunned, he shows no mercy and intends to execute them all.<br /><br />Cumberbatch was great, don't get me wrong, but I didn't really sympathize with him.The Bitter Script Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16575166527272639709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-47994302534461327572013-05-20T11:48:32.723-07:002013-05-20T11:48:32.723-07:00Great article. Totally agreed on the journey of Ki...Great article. Totally agreed on the journey of Kirk.<br /><br />As to the bit about the Admiral: For my money, the broadness with which his motivations are painted is what allows for a certain degree of contemporary allegory to be grafted onto the situation surrounding his character. A more defined motivation may have extinguished the immediate inclination I feel it gives in it's current form to draw contemporary parallels. Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00578391171843466820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-76097770898867953422013-05-20T11:46:06.189-07:002013-05-20T11:46:06.189-07:00"Couldn't Spock have devised the torpedo ..."Couldn't Spock have devised the torpedo switcheroo on his own?" <br /><br />I've seen this protestation elsewhere. I saw nothing in that exchange that implied Spock Prime gave Spock the idea.<br /><br />Rather, it would seem to me that Spock had this idea -- which was risky in a way that stretched his character in a Kirkly direction -- and he consulted his future self to confirm his distrust of Khan in making the decidedly un-Vulcan decision. Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00578391171843466820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-50804737489603586682013-05-20T08:20:46.577-07:002013-05-20T08:20:46.577-07:00I can only speak for myself, but I do truly wonder...I can only speak for myself, but I do truly wonder If I am one of few who thinks about this. And I do think the 80 % schlocks (never heard the term before, but do love it) wouldnt "mind" if the female part would be more "real" than just there to serve a quota. I dont believe it has to be made in to a big deal if we saw more developed female characters. <br /><br />And of course, the scene where Carol Marcus decides to change her outfit in a middle of a conversation with Kirk is completely normal. Girls do that all the time :) Dunjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06104433164336692693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-74976525822447675902013-05-20T07:50:23.367-07:002013-05-20T07:50:23.367-07:00In my theater, when Spock shouted that famous line...In my theater, when Spock shouted that famous line, people laughed. I don't think they were supposed to. So yeah, I think they may have been blinded by their own cleverness on that one.<br /><br />Over all, I thought it was great, but I do feel like you could have yanked Carol out of the movie and nothing would have changed. She had zero effect on the story, so it seemed like her purpose was to get another hot girl in the movie since they didn't have Rachel Nicholls this time.Emily Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02163221455899041141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-71940960009832839532013-05-20T07:21:39.879-07:002013-05-20T07:21:39.879-07:00Well, the body was safe because there was a decont...Well, the body was safe because there was a decontamination cycle running in the engineering compartment. Scotty told Spock that's why they couldn't open the door.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-10417523039514392522013-05-20T07:21:10.297-07:002013-05-20T07:21:10.297-07:00I'm wondering a couple things, do people ask t...I'm wondering a couple things, do people ask these questions about the place for women in these movies because they want to spark debate; but already know the answer? or are they actually asking the question in terms of it's reality?<br /><br />i think it's very important to understand that while there is a small, loud minority that accepts gender equality, movies are made for the 80% schlock of the bigots, racists, uninformed, chauvinists who actually pay to go see these movies and their needs are 'always' considered in the final product and what we get is stereotypes consistent with the ignorance of this majority.<br /><br />I would have loved to have a spoiler warning on this. Ba-dump.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04513325599318764316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-56064747014243566272013-05-20T05:16:56.758-07:002013-05-20T05:16:56.758-07:00Re: female characters - I agree that Kirk, Spock a...Re: female characters - I agree that Kirk, Spock and the iconic characters are the core of ST, but there was nothing stopping Admiral Marcus from being a woman. In fact, as much as I loved Benedict Cumberbatch's performance, there's nothing stopping Khan being female in this continuity... <br /><br />Re: rooting for Khan - a couple of hours in the editing suite, minimal ADR, and you could create a cut of this movie that's about noble and misused Khan getting his just revenge on Starfleet with the aid of a cocky young sidekick called Kirk... Which to me is one of the most interesting things about the movie. Morally, there's a hair's breadth between hero and villain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-4686872625819414492013-05-20T03:01:39.140-07:002013-05-20T03:01:39.140-07:00Yeah, of course they are the core of Star Trek, he...Yeah, of course they are the core of Star Trek, hence things revolve around them. I just wish the female roles could have been more prominent . And as a person who has never watched Star Trek, I dont have any expectations of how the characters should be etc. <br /><br />For me the movie was extremely stylish, the 3D-effects finally made sense in a movie. But my biggest problem was that the whole movie was very predictable. And to cast Benedict Cumberbatch as the villan is both genius and dangerous, as a non-trekkie I rooted for Khan the whole movie and not for Kirk :) Dunjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06104433164336692693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-30389739170416366952013-05-20T02:17:07.953-07:002013-05-20T02:17:07.953-07:00Good points all, and adds more discussion to the b...Good points all, and adds more discussion to the back and forth currently going on with my writers group. Some old school Trek fans adore the movie, some hate it. I'm about two-thirds over to loving it, but be interested to hear your take on my issues with it from a storytelling/plotting perspective.<br /><br />I loved the shizz out of the movie until around the time Marcus showed up in the Vengeance. After that point, the plot seems to run out of steam and feels like a series of wasted opportunities. <br /><br />Recalling the tense, submarine-warfare style showdown between Kirk and Khan in TWOK, both with damaged ships trying to find that one critical strike, Into Darkness doesn't really do anything with the Vengeance once it appears. It knackers the Enterprise then gets put out of action. Khan takes it over, but it's immediately badly damaged by the exploding torpedoes. Khan then nosedives it into the SF Bay but doesn't seem to hit many actual buildings with it, let alone Starfleet Command. So why make such a threatening ship and then do eff all with it?<br /><br />That's when the niggles started to turn into full blown nerd rage for me - what point was there in Spock calling up Spock Prime for advice? Couldn't Spock have devised the torpedo switcheroo on his own? And more to the point, why does nobody on the bridge bat a dang eyelid that Spock calls up his own alternate future self for advice? Wasn't that meant to be a big secret?<br /><br />Kirk's death felt like a genuinely surprising turn for a second, then that badly signposted moment earlier with the Tribble popped in (why is Bones jabbing a needle into a dead Tribble in the middle of an emergency situation with a gods damn superpowered psycopath sitting two feet away?), and the Reset Button Alarm totally broke the whole scene. Spock trying to do the iconic KHAAAN! felt like fan service, as you said - fun, yes, but a touch forced. The death of Spock in Khan was a true game changer - I don't think anybody in the audience believed for a second Kirk was going to stay dead long.<br /><br />Let's not mention the fact they put the body of a man killed by a massive dose of radiation in the middle of sickbay. It felt like a huge, huge cop out and killed any drama the moment of Kirk's attempt at a redemptive sacrifice might have created. Kirk getting a lethal dose of poisoning and being saved by Khan's blood before succumbing to it - that I could have followed. Threaten him with actual death and the stakes are still there for Spock's (admittedly cool) chase down of Khan through SF.<br /><br />That whole final sequence also didn't seem to get rolling - after knackering the Vengeance, Enterprise starts to spiral towards Earth but the narrative just forgets about Khan until he comes rocketing past a few minutes later. He crashes into SF but despite the Vengeance tumbling through the city, what was he aiming for? Did he do much damage? Given that his opening attack on the Starfleet council pointed to a deep-seated hatred of Starfleet later undone by naming Marcus as the sole conspirator, Khan didn't really have much of a reason to attack once Marcus was dead.<br /><br />How about this - get to the showdown with Vengeance a bit sooner, but have Khan get his crew back, populate the ship and then cripple the Enterprise, racing off for Earth to destroy Starfleet with its own superweapon. Cue Kirk and crew racing to get Enterprise rolling again (maybe this is when you have Kirk get a fatal dose of radiation), leading to a showdown with Vengeance in the skies over SF. Spock outsmarts Khan and downs the Vengeance, chases Harrison down and resists the urge to kill him so his blood can be used to save Kirk.<br /><br />Or maybe I'm letting nerd rage get to me here. I could always just blame Damon Lindelof again. That usually works :)Monster Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09060472590396598058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-34295514383406815312013-05-20T01:33:29.885-07:002013-05-20T01:33:29.885-07:00My take - Kirk and Spock are the core of Trek. Th...My take - Kirk and Spock are the core of Trek. The story has GOT to revolve around them. As you build outward from that, there's only so much screentime to go around. The issue you note is sort of exacerbated by the fact that Uhura is the only main cast female character among the main crew.<br /><br />Ironically, I see them making Uhura "the girlfriend" as their attempt to give her more to do and to offer a more interesting dynamic to her relationship with Spock. On the old series, Uhura wasn't romantically involved with ANY of the crew and was little more than a background button-pusher. And when all is said and done, she probably still had more to do in this movie than Checkov, Sulu and about on par with Scotty.<br /><br />(If this was an ongoing TV series, I have no doubt that every character would get their due over the course of a TV season. But this is a Star Trek movie, so people are paying to see Kirk and Spock take center stage.)<br /><br />(And as other fans have pointed out, linking her with Spock has resulted in her partially usurping McCoy's spot in the traditional Kirk/Spock/McCoy triumvirate.)<br /><br />I wish that more could have been done with Carol Marcus given her significance to the canon, but there's only so much screentime in two hours and making her the Admiral's daughter was the most efficient way of getting her into the story. (And frankly, I had a strong sense that some of her story was left on the cutting room floor. It's odd they go to the trouble of bringing in Carol and not have her get involved with Kirk.)The Bitter Script Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16575166527272639709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-41625683438764012052013-05-20T01:21:20.198-07:002013-05-20T01:21:20.198-07:00Hey,
Love the blog but I would like to hear from ...Hey,<br /><br />Love the blog but I would like to hear from you on the topics of:<br /><br />- Why is friendship only limited to men in the movie? Its such a bromance all through out the film. <br />- Do you not react to the fact that as a woman, the only thing you can be in the movie " a mans daughter" or "the girlfriend". This really bugs me, even when they give Uhura och Admirals Daugher cool education and scenes, it just feel like they are "the token girls". <br /><br />Im just wandering if someone else then me noticed these things! <br />Dunjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06104433164336692693noreply@blogger.com