tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post7312928633747257735..comments2024-03-07T20:15:45.996-08:00Comments on The Bitter Script Reader: 13 Reasons Why - Side 4: Clay, an outsider who isn't an outcastThe Bitter Script Readerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16575166527272639709noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-62337374618304945872018-10-23T20:45:19.117-07:002018-10-23T20:45:19.117-07:00That's how I've taken it. He was too chick...That's how I've taken it. He was too chicken to go for the kiss, probably scared it was too forward, so he went for the hug. (And probably kicked himself for it all the way home.)The Bitter Script Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16575166527272639709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-88153077878642765322018-10-23T20:40:36.241-07:002018-10-23T20:40:36.241-07:00Small point on the walk. I've always been con...Small point on the walk. I've always been confused by the hug. Did Clay realize she wanted him to do something but couldn't manage the kiss? Given his usual level of obliviousness that seems a little much. I can certainly see him doing nothing, but the hug threw me. I'm pretty sure it was the only time they hugged.1775rikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793433373718951164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-60620837854670068232018-10-22T22:34:23.600-07:002018-10-22T22:34:23.600-07:00Yeah, when I wrote that spec I basically tried to ...Yeah, when I wrote that spec I basically tried to work out a sense of what Hannah had gone through during that "missing year," basically trying to justify her and Clay not seeing much of her. There's a lot that's affecting her perceptions in that first episode. I figured the audience could infer plenty of that while still not making it impossible for them to find their way back to each other.<br /><br />I agree with you about the eclipse being a turning point in her feelings towards Clay, even if she didn't consciously realize it then or during that walk with Clay. The dance could have ended up another near miss like those, or it could have been the turning point. Given how quickly she realized her feelings after that, I lean towards the latter.The Bitter Script Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16575166527272639709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-47794568630472345232018-10-22T21:03:36.752-07:002018-10-22T21:03:36.752-07:00Hitting your fourth and fifth paragraphs, I didn&#...Hitting your fourth and fifth paragraphs, I didn't mean to suggest they weren't real friends, just that they weren't as close as I think we are meant to think they were. In addition to not talking about personal stuff, with the exception of the Molly party, we never see either of them making any effort to hang out with each other outside of school and work. Hannah has social time with everyone else she is friends with during the series, but with the one exception, never with Clay. I certainly don't question the depth of their feelings, but its almost they were so caught up in their unexpressed romantic feelings that the didn't put much effort into the friendship.<br /><br />Back to your first paragraph briefly, in addition to the antidepressants, the length of time she went without seeing Clay may have made it difficult to retain the same feelings.<br /><br />Finally, while I know you like to take Hannah at her word, I think she started to have real feelings for Clay on the night of the eclipse and was feeling them the night we see him walking her home. So I agree that without Jessica's intervention, I agree that one way or another, something would have solidified the night of the dance.1775rikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793433373718951164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-74439765600923336412018-10-22T12:09:17.232-07:002018-10-22T12:09:17.232-07:00Quick word about that bit in the spec script: that...Quick word about that bit in the spec script: that's Hannah's perspective on it a year and a half after the fact and it's very much colored by what she's been through and ESPECIALLY the fact she's not feeling the same thing for Clay that she once did. (Which, as implied, is both a result of her recovery and the anti-depressants she's on.) Her teenage brain has concluded, "If I'm not feeling the rush from you now that I felt from the point where everything went to hell, maybe it was never real to begin with." I'm not sure she's 100% right about that, but it's what she might reasonably think and project backwards onto her infatuation with Clay.<br /><br />When I wrote that spec, I did a rough break of the entire season just so I had a sense of what I'd be writing towards. If future eps existed, a major thread would have been about Clay and Hannah rebuilding their connection and Hannah coming around to the idea that she DID love Clay back then and that those feelings were going to manifest differently now. There would have been some back and forth, but they probably would have become a couple around episode 10.<br /><br />I think they actually would have connected if the moment at the dance had been allowed to play out. Even if Clay still balked when it came time to kiss her there, I bet they'd have spent the rest of the dance together and Clay would spend enough of the night beating himself up that he might have finally gone for it. For her part, Hannah doesn't seem to realize her feelings for Clay until shortly after that, but I bet them kissing in that moment would have accelerated that revelation.<br /><br />I really like your take on Jessica/Hannah, and I think you're right. I don't even have anything to add to that, it's pretty spot on, especially with regard to the guilt she feels after the party.<br /><br />I feel like Clay and Hannah were real friends, as much as you can define it by teenage standards. They continually seek each other out and clearly feelings ran deep on both sides. It definitely runs deeper than in the book, where they're more like ships passing in the night. I think there's different degrees of opening up. They might not have shared deepest secrets, but they're both more vulnerable with each other than with most others. At sixteen, that's a pretty huge deal.<br /><br />Think of it this way - after the fact, Clay isn't musing on how much he misses Kat and what she meant to her, even in terms of casual connection. His speech at the grave makes it clear - he feels a void with Hannah gone, and her actions in the last few eps of season one show that she felt the loss of their connection too. Also, for Mr. Porter to bring up Clay in his meeting with Hannah shows that they must have hung out together enough for even a disinterested faculty member to notice.The Bitter Script Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16575166527272639709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-65435555172142149512018-10-22T09:10:40.426-07:002018-10-22T09:10:40.426-07:00I'm going to focus on your section about the d...I'm going to focus on your section about the dance and ask what you think would have happened if Hannah had not gone to rescue Jessica. Given that they both seemed to be feeling the same thing at the same time, I think they might have connected, although I find Hannah's dialogue in your spec script indicating they might not have been feeling the same thing intriguing.<br /><br />I think that to a large extent Jessica was Hannah's white whale. I don't think Hannah ever got over losing Jessica as a friend. As good a person as I think Hannah was, I'm not sure she would have broken away from Clay at the dance for anyone other than Jessica. Its a shame because not only did Jessica never seem to be grateful to Hannah for what she did, I don't think she ever really understood, or perhaps even remembered what Hannah did.<br /><br />Similarly, I'm not sure Hannah gets in the hot tub if Jessica was not already there. I think the fact that they were exchanging friendly matter and Hannah's fragile mental state over what had previously happened that day made Hannah believe, however irrationally, that she still had a chance to connect with Jessica.<br /><br />And of course, her desire to reconnect with Jessica made the guilt she felt over not intervening to help her at her party even more overwhelming. I think this guilt was misplaced because I don't think Hannah could have really helped her without exposing herself to danger. But I think Hannah really felt guilt. While her rape was the triggering event that put her firmly on the path to suicide, I think it was the guilt she felt over her actions at the party, combined with her utter feeling of isolation that kept her from pulling out of her spiral as she always had before. Obviously being raped was a level of trauma far above what she had previously experienced. But I think her guilt and isolation convinced her that she was pretty near worthless and not really deserving of being saved.<br /><br />I liked you analysis of Clay's armor. And despite what he said about feeling like he could be himself around Hannah and how comfortable we see them when they are together in the first few episodes, I think his armor may have also crippled his relationship with Hannah. While the show certainly gives us the feeling they are becoming increasingly close, I don't think we ever actually see them doing anything indicating they are even particularly close friends. We never seem discussing anything really personal or confiding in each other. Part of this is I think because as outgoing as she was, I think Hannah found it difficult to open up to people. And I don't think Clay was even to get out of his shell, even with Hannah and even as to subjects that has nothing to do with romance. It seems revealing that even in the Molly episode when they were under the influence of drugs their conversation still did not touch on anything personal. I think that when it came to crunch time, during the last month of her life, their failure to really even develop a close friendship made it easier for them to keep each other at arms length and easier for Clay to be pretty unaware of how bad a shape she was in.1775rikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793433373718951164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-29056980142215139682017-07-15T10:20:58.220-07:002017-07-15T10:20:58.220-07:00I have nothing to add to this beyond affirming tha...I have nothing to add to this beyond affirming that THE SPECTACULAR NOW is brilliant and that I totally was making connects between it and the series as I watched too.<br /><br />Another great point of grounding: everyone dresses like real teens. My wife even made a point of praising that when Hannah's dress for the dance looked like something a girl that age might buy and not the designer clothes of PRETTY LITTLE LIARS.The Bitter Script Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16575166527272639709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4706282221761427996.post-18230072319906181992017-07-15T09:16:26.667-07:002017-07-15T09:16:26.667-07:00That was one of the things that surprised me the m...That was one of the things that surprised me the most. The "realistic" dialogue those teenagers had and the good work the actors did with it. One movie that also features the same brilliance in this area I think is "The Spectacular Now". Teens are usually so over-written, so clever. I get it and it's cool sometimes (hey, Buffy fan 4eva) but it became sort of a trope, the dialogue-y teen and the smarter-than-adults child. It was nice to see a show looking for that grounded dialogue.Eduardo Albuquerquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02585825176215146518noreply@blogger.com